Greetings!
It is with great pleasure that I announce the institution of The Grand Relocation Information Zone, here at the Les Visible blog; the only one presently not in rotation, decommissioned, or already earmarked. Because something just short of 20 people have already been in contact with me, concerning a serious financial commitment, or a serious interest, as a prelude to the same, I have determined that it's time for a little preliminary exploration into possibilities.
As you might have guessed, this land is so attractively inexpensive due to the lack of utilities (principally electric). It has water and it has arable land, as well as natural resources that will be listed as I learn what they are (grin). There's no internet either but there is internet a short (by my measurements) distance away.
I'll frame out some initial ideas that I have, subject to approval by the greater mass, which I believe to be the most workable beginning schematic. Obviously at least one parcel of the land needs to be purchased and though there is a given price, one must assume some amount of tax and transfer fees; probably no big deal. In any case, it seems intelligent and user friendly to designate a central portion of the property as common land, to be shared by all in respect of communal purposes. Given that everyone will eventually want their own dwelling on their own segment, it seems like a good idea to build an initial common dwelling so that shelter will be available to all early on. This would most likely be a dome of 30' to 60'diameter; whatever seems needed. Into this is built sleeping pallets that can be folded up or used as couches during the day. A common kitchen would go in and a half circle loft built for additional space.
I'm sure there are any number of workable bright ideas that could apply but my own take is efficiency and maximum accommodation with a minimum of hassle and expense.; I don't know what we would cover it with. For temporary purposes there are waterproof UV resistant canvas covers, built to size specs that can be acquired and which have multiple year guarantees, depending on what you get. I don't know what the possibilities of adobe shingles are (my idea- I don't know if such things exist) but if you can build adobe bricks, you can build adobe shingles, all you need is a mold, straw, clay and water. Mudbrick is a possibility too, I suppose. People have been known to use manure in their bricks but I think we can pass on that. There's a time factor when you're dealing with adobe so initially the canvas cover sounds good. That will be a few grand to purchase.
I think we can leave wider planning to future interactions but I thought mention of an initial common dwelling and commonly shared central grounds was a good idea. I'll make no mention of the actual country under consideration. It serves for the moment to know that it is South America. That's a big place. An email to me will provide deeper particulars, if I happen to know you. If I don't, I regret to say that a vetting process will exist, given the nature of the beast still operational- but not for long we hope. Have no fear, if you are not of that persuasion there will be only brief hesitation. We'll put salient details up as they become pertinent.
Under consideration are 3 parcels. Primarily we are focusing on one parcel that is comprised of 70 hectares for 50,000 dollars.
We'll try to post unlabeled pictures of the land as they become available to me.
Okay, I'll turn it over to the readers and you can chime in as you may be inspired to do.
♫ Walk Across the Bridge ♫Lyrics (pops up)
46 comments:
As to said vetting process, a simple background check might not hurt. Also, what about simply making the deposit refundable to people who just don't work out after 90 days or so.
Plus, are their any deal breaking qualities that you simply cannot abide? I likely possess at least one of any good list of bad qualities. No reason to waste alot of time trying to fit if I am the trapezoid and the hole is round.
For instance...I would argue with a sign ifI thought it was wrong. (I actually won one of those arguments, though I must admit a few losses and many draws.) Modern society doesn't appreciate dissenting views, and new-agey people have proven to be no exception in my experience. I will argue with anyone given enough contact. No one is always right. I am willing to admit when I am wrong, but I don't just go along to get along.
Thoughts?
There's a lot to be said for harmony, restraint and tact, one would suppose, in any social situation that depends on cooperative effort for it's ongoing existence.....'you have to know when to hold 'em,know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away and know when to run'....to paraphrase that old Kenny Rogers song.
Mandocello
He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day!
(P.S.: The Devil put Dinosaurs here)
Always enjoy those passive aggressive comments that make no sense, it spares me having to think about it.
Having actually lived in a spiritually oriented commune in the early 70s, I think I have a valid viewpoint to share. My advice is: Visible, move to your location first and set yourself up in peace and quiet for at least one year before even attempting to navigate a cooperative endeavor. Egos will always attempt to assert themselves into even a spiritually oriented endeavor...usually in a very so-called spiritual way (read passive aggressive and/or subtly manipulative). There are huge challenges in attempting a union of souls in a place like South America where the culture is so different from our first-world expectations. The language issue is the first challenge which makes everything else more difficult to accomplish. I don't even know where to begin describing the other difficulties of building a community in a first world country, much less a third world country. Don't misunderstand my comments....I think finding one's "community" is a valid and essential goal in today's world, but having lived through the experience.....whew...it might be a lot easier to do your own thing and purchase land nearby to each other rather than try to live together on the same track of land.
Personally, I prefer to be in possession of more information, a great deal more information, before forming an opinion on a place I've never been in relation to people I've never met but... that's just me.
I've been associated with several successful communities that functioned very nicely and in the one case, only ended because most of the members went down to Philadelphia to be with Guru Bawa so, I suppose you could say, in a way, it's still operational. The other one was a club with 200 members which involved get togethers at various locations and which did very well in every respect. It ended when I left town and for whatever reason, no one stepped forward to keep it happening.
I am looking for a way to handle your commentary in a diplomatic fashion and all I am left with is that there is more to what is going on here than you have information concerning and I haven't spent my life in a small midwestern town. Interestingly, I've actually lived in places, for periods of time, where people spoke foreign languages and one of them was Spanish.
No one is going to be purchasing any land that they don't have a clear understanding about and as for putting a community together well, I think that depends entirely on the personalities involved. Things can work very well or not at all. I'm not depending on myself or my own power for whatever my involvement is. Taken from the POV of presuming that one is in control of their every circumstance, or responsible for their every circumstance, I could see lots of difficulty with that.
I find when it comes to egos asserting themselves it usually had to do as much with the other egos affected by and reacting to them as it does with anything else. This is an individual enterprise where everyone is responsible for seeing their own vision through. The nature of community comes into play the way it might with the Amish and the Quakers where everyone helps everyone else out at certain times and where those seeking fellowship have that and those seeking privacy have that.
I'm not going to take up any more of my time talking about this because I haven't encountered the things you're talking about. I know those possibilities are around but I'm not looking to see them manifest or assist in that manifestation. It will come off if it is meant to, or it won't. I'm not concerned in that regard and some good portion of those presently interested I have known for quite some time.
I'm going to err on the side of being optimistic and not seeking to convince anyone of anything and let everyone make up their own mind as to what possibilities may or may not exist. A lot of people want to be somewhere other than where they are and I doubt they want to sit on their hands for a year waiting on some designated right moment.
Like I said if it's supposed to happen, it will. No one has been promised anything and no one will be engaging in anything before they know full well what the possibilities and limitations are.
In reading about Ecuador and residency requirements, I ran across this for getting a visa, which is the one which would apply for buying land, and the only one that would apply to myself and maybe others as a way to live there.
9-II: Investor of Real Estate or Securities Visa: This is for real estate and securities investors who are investing at least $25,000.
http://www1.internationalliving.com/sem/country/ecuador/report/ppc.html
My question is, since everyone is buying this land together for presumably $50,000, would we qualify for a visa, even though individually we would be paying less than $25,000.
fidly
Hi Les,
What you're proposing here is potentially very interesting... am curious to see more information as it becomes available. So far we know:
1. Got Water - check - essential
2. No Electricity - okay; not essential
What about:
3. Location relative to volcanoes?
4. Altitude?
Looking forward to seeing how this all shapes up...
Aunt Franny
via Homer..
Sounds like Annie has milked a few cows! HaHa!
Good for you, Annie!
It's at 8,000 feet. There's one extinct volcano, so far as I know.
Visa are for 6 months. So far as I know, you have to leave for a month each time and then get a new visa. I'll have more on that shortly. I'm going at an intentionally slow and measured pace, preparing to field questions and study the nature of the questions before I get more into articulating things I have yet to say.
There is a method to my madness as will be seen in a bit. I will say that it was my intention to look into nearby points in nearby countries for a location we could come and go from visa wise. I'm trying to see as many of the angles as possible before I get into saying too much.
hi les,
the only requirements needed are sunshine, water, dirt and love...i say go for it.
i have a few thousand to throw in but not nearly $25,000...are tents allowed?
ps..don't dink around tho' because if they collaspe the money world, your dollars won't buy much.
Hi Marilyn;
Well, I can only go as fast as it goes. We have the majority of the money needed pledged. I would buy the whole parcel myself but my windfall has not yet fallen. Possibly this is affected by the jet stream (grin).
I'm sure tents are allowed.
I am VERY interested in this community. Would a commercial sewing machine sewer and designer of tented structures be a welcome addition? I lived a total of 3 years...plus or minus a few months in MAUI (wink to Les) and found myself unable to bear living in "normal housing afterward! It is a remarkably plesant way to live...included was computer, furniture...antiques no less!...cookstove outdoors and an enclosure for showers...again outdoors. Slept like an angel ( if they sleep) and the spiritual aspects were off the charts for me.
Right off the bat my friend, we can (you can) sew teepee canvas for both the dome and other structures should we provide the raw materials which... will make you the belle of the ball; having owned an industrial sewing machine, I know it's worth--- get thee hither. Many, many thanks for offering. This alone cuts down on expense and conditions where nothing else comes close.
God bless you Ginnie AND all of you showing up here at the blogs and twice as many in emails. We pretty much have the first parcel covered. Long as you don't mind a little temporary discomfort, this can rock... and just so you know, I won't be staying with the massa up on the hill. I'm an 'in the trenches' kind of a guy'.
You made me cry for joy at the welcome my services would supply!
Also, your link for comments immediately "mysteriously" was unavailable to me right after your post! Frightened they be! And rightly so. All that remains is my divorce from a "trust fund" baby who has me locked out for even mere survival. Love at it's "finest" a la illuminati! Going quietly into that dark night is not even an entertaining thought to me...unless it is them and I get to watch! Spiritual voyeurism? Oh well! Beats what they are up to and into! The only thing left is what the travel costs will be...gotta bring the machine!
Les Vi,
I love what you give. I read very few writers these days because most so-called "spiritual" writings are bullshit. I have met some of the famous: the authors, the leaders of "spiritiual communities": the "gurus". I have accompanied them in their Cessna Citation III's They are mostly full of shit or at the very least incompetent inheritors. Sorry if that sounds harsh. I read you because you write from the heart and you have no pretense. Stay on track. May you feel loved because you are worthy of it.
Hi Ginnie Thompson with the industrial sewing machine. I just wanted to say that if I am there, I will offer to assist you. I am an experienced seamstress, have never used an industrial machine but I can learn whatever is needed and I enjoy shared work.
There does seem to be a "no electricity" issue with the property under consideration, but please don't take this as a nay-saying comment. I'm sure that Les and you and others will be able to find a way around that, if your machine is not a treadle type.
I am almost never a nay-sayer unless I see harm at the end of a particular line of thinking. My driving principles are harmony and balance, elegance if possible, the same way Nature works.
All best wishes,
Aunt Franny
I know my comments were negative and I want to apologize for that. I do hope the relocation goes well for all who participate.
Dear Vis,
I'm in. I'm hoping to get together more than 10k before the end of this year.
Fingers crossed.
And 8000ft sounds good.
Love
Alan
I'm sorry if I didn't handle it all that well. As of yesterday it looks like the whole place may be purchased in one fell swoop.
Regarding adobe or cobb building, you might like to look at my dear friend Leeann's site "Making Dirt Pay". Go to ancientvalley.com and click on her window. God driven woman making the desert bloom singlehandedly! Maybe I can entice her to visit and demo for us! She also has movie making abilities and equipment...might be fun to have all this "of record" so to speak. She also holds a link I lost to Buckminster Fullers pattern to make geodesic domes from bamboo, a drill, saw, marking pen and ties! Could come in extra handy!
That sounds great, Ginny! I do get the sneaking feeling that some very interesting people are going to come together and fascinate, educate and entertain the heck out of each other.
wow "altitude 8000 feet" ... having moved from 300 foot altitude to 5000 feet without knowing anything about that shift of physical realities until after the first six months or year of assimilation-there are many serious things to know about '8000 feet altitude'.
I was told that '5000 feet is the cutoff for those compromised with pulmonary/heart system problems'... and for those without physical ailments everyone needs to know that the red blood cells physically need to grow larger to allow oxygenation and that is for 5000 feet.
It took me about a year to assimilate to the altitude change at 5000 feet. And since I didn't know the body changes going on and did not pace myself physically, I was worried about my lack of energy (sleeping every time I could when not physically working)... I also craved mass amounts of liver that first cold winter and I'm talking eating at least a pound of it over a day or two... it would physically stoke me up for a few days with each 'liver treatment'.
That liver crave went on for a few years and lesser amounts of it were needed each time the crave would hit me.
I'd get a few pounds of beef liver for myself and doggies and ended up by boiling the liver until thoroughly cooked in a rice gruel concoction I'd devised for my dogs.. ( hahaha 'gods' came out naturally in the typing)... it was actually much tastier boiled than fried. I'd just put it on a plate and munch it when I felt the need.
Then after doing the liver ingestion treatments a few times, a friend of mine who'd moved to 8000 foot elevation in CO told me about 'the blood cells growing' and how much more water was needed (along with rest) for the body to accustom itself to its new altitude.
I asked several about those 'who go to high altitudes to SKI or other physical exerting exercise-like hunting-and was told by several sources that 'your body has three days of confusion as to the changes in altitude... get in and get out before the body realizes what has changed' ... and going 'down' is, of course, much easier on the bodies than 'going up'... (hmmmm)
So this '8000 foot altitude' is not a trivial matter but can be handled nutritionally and medically. I would suggest an O2 machine since that would be the most affordable way to provide 02 for those who might need it during the altitude transition effects upon the bodies.
I too would love to help sew canvas covers, always wanted to do that as a business with my drafting/measuring skills. :)
love to all,
the gardener
Hi Gardener...Food Grade H2o2 is the answer! Your dogs and you and also your plants roots! educateyourself.org and also guardian of eden...org or com...can't recall! Bill Munro has a great page on inhaling it through a nasal sprayer and also his plant info. It saved my life from black mold toxicity...no lie! Hopeto get some updates on location soon! Love ya Les!
Hi Vis. I posted a comment a few days ago and it hasn't shown up yet. ????
Laura in CA
I couldn't tell you. I only see what surfaces at my end. Whatever does, unless it's seriously abusive, gets published.
I wanted to also add that I am hugely interested in this relocation idea. Since Vis has mentioned it, it has really grown on me.
I could offer the group the following: I have formal training in Spanish (4 years plus all the Spanish I am exposed to living in CA), French (6 years formal study plus several trips to France), German (formal study plus living near Munich for over 5 years), Russian (although rusty since I haven't used it in a while) and 3 years in Italian. All languages I've also tutored.
Next month I'll be getting my passport renewed. I am feeling the urge to do that.
I am very attached to my children: 3 horses, my basset hound and 2 cats. Don't know what the requirements are for bringing them in the country, or how on earth even to go about it, but if it's meant to be it will be done.
Laura in CA
For Laura, I brought 2 dogs from Hawaii to this country. I suggest you contact the Ecuadorian embassy, and a vet who is familiar with the process. You will need to complete the necessary paperwork which includes health certification. It is not difficult, but there is a timing issue-30day window, I think, so until your travel plans are clearly set, you can be lining up the vet, and checking out airline policies. I think horses would be much harder to transport here. There are many horses here-good quality and well adapted to hauling people and cargo up trails, and they are not expensive-$200-300. American Airlines was helpful, and my dogs arrived here with a friend and without a problem. If you need more info in the future, Les can give you my email address. Kayanna
Laura;
Damn lady! That is one fine curriculum vitae you got there. You would make a fine addition. The horses thing most likely is way problematic. I have to leave my Poncho too. I suppose I could take him but he will get better care here, although he would be way happier there. Spanish speaking countries are routinely not very nice to dogs, for some reason. Call that a stereotype or whatever but I know it to be true.
If I came with $20,000.00 (that being the entirety of my "fortune/income" with no other money coming in from any other source. No retirement, social security or other $) and my industrial machine, would there be the ability to make my way in this new venture? I have never lived outside America except for a few months in Canada and 7+ years in Hawaii. It would be nice to have input from more "traveled" types so I can weigh in the possibilities. I am 61 years and a female who would be coming alone.
Wisdom from others would be helpful as there would be no coming back! Nothing to come "back" to. Burning the boat!
hi all,
definitely interested in this endeavor as existence in the corpUSA is... well, less than pleasant.
my pockets are fairly empty and i no longer bank in the system. could probably come up with several K, maybe significantly more if my partner comes along... i do speak conversationally fluent spanish, having lived in paraguay and mexico, and travelled rather extensively in latin american countries.
additionally, i have experience with modest scale food production (gardening) and have made my living as a professional chef for over 25 years. got room for such skills? not to mention bodywork/energy/sonic healing modalities... however it all pans out (gold!) i wish all the best.
better get my passport renewed....
There's room for all competent good hearted folks.
Money...
What happens if all we can afford to do is walk, but are still interested?
I had hoped this question to be unnecessary, but sometimes things work out like that. In the short term, that is, hopefully not long term.
Probably then you look into dependable shoes.
OK so let me get this straight.
a bunch of people are putting up money and committing to moving far from family, friends and culture to a place they have never been before to build a "community", with no clear agreement about what that is or how it might work, with people they have never met before under the leadership of someone they have never met before who has a history of failing at similar ventures and personal conflicts with the other people he has been involved in previous attempts at the same idea, who is under the guidance of his "invisible friends" and claims to hear the voice of god.
Hmmm ok.
Has anyone heard of the reverend Jim Jones and his little experiment in Guyana?
Visible says he will thoroughly "vet" everyone to make sure only the right people are involved, is there a document that details the criteria?
Will that be in the same way you vetted Amarnyth?, Mastera?
those people in slovakia was it?, somewhere in eastern europe anyway, cbf finding the reference
that dutch idiot that was doing your website management?
the guy who setup the first new shangri-la forum who dissappeared without leaving you admin access to the site?
the person you sent the videos of your comedy to?
the band in england you were going to record with?
nice vetting.
strong team you have built.
stood the test of time hasn't it.
I'm sorry if this is perceived as "negative" but it needs to be said.
Annie talked sense in her comment, shame few seemed to be listening.
Good luck, you will need it.
Strum
Not a single one of those things are true, you bitter and loathsome coward, who will not give your name and who, due to that, says all that needs be said about itself. Please find for me where any of the things you said are stated by me.
The truth of the matter is that, post nasal drip effluvia like you make up a tiny, tiny minority of those who come here and not one of you leaves your name. It would expose you if you did. Here's the kicker though, these things will happen and happen wonderfully but you will have no part in it, thank god.
are you a relative of GW he likes S.Amerika ?
Chas
On behalf of lv, let me answer you, ....."strum", "anonymous". Either you truly know not of those circumstances and persons of whom and what you spoke, OR you are one OF them. I have too many well-acquired solid proofs to allow you to slither along such a path of half witted half explained slander. I stand by lv, having spent two years digging the shit outta from under the pile of bull biscuits those you named built to hide their own rancor and poor behaviors. do as i did. Get. The. Facts.
Lv, i might be able to visit, but poor health has become too permanent a companion for my body to take 8k feet. Not even sure i will be able to do more than visit half the way up at that. But i can host a nice local buffet, you can All come down the mountain and say hi, and i will be happy to have had that experience!
Chas; are you related to the corrupt English nobility? they have plenty of people called Chas.
Strum is a curmudgeon. i think that is the kindest way to put it. He had zero contact with anything except, as you say, lies formulated by others. Some people like to believe the worst of others. It's in their DNA. There are several people who were around for one debacle. They've all slinked away. Some were there, they saw nothing much. Some were not there, they believed too much. Everybody has to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling.
I'm not going to the 8 thousand feet location anymore; at least not as of the moment. Present plans are to migrate East about 800 some kilometers where I think it's about 4-500 feet above sea level.
Hey, this is some pretty interesting stuff. I just built a house in Mexico and am here for the duration. You guys have some good ideas and you'll have some successes and some failures. You can plan this and that all you want but usually you'll find out what you need as you go....and no one is going anywhere until you jump on the old bus and head down the road. Just jump in, peel out and make the adjustments that are necessary when and if they come due. Good luck and don't worry, you'll make it!! Poco a poco.
Hey everyone. I haven't heard from anyone in a while on this page. I just wanted to say that I have renewed interest in this and if there's anything I can do to promote ideas or labor please let me know. Thenewtrace@gmail.com
I first met Les Crook in the jail of Kingston, New York in 1970, after many years of bizarre encounters in Woodstock, where we ,drunk on ale, forced people to eat Maccadamian butter, and sniff our tube-snokes and in later decades crashed alien love-feasts in Maui, I have designed the surrealistic movie of Les Visable's life and times, Your Old Pard, Ray Shackleton
Hi Ray; I have been Les Visible for over 30 years now and you are at a blog that has the least visitors so no one is going to see this. You need to go to the masthead and try one of the trafficked blogs like Smoking Mirrors, Visible Origami or Reflections in a Petri Dish. The empire of visible creative expressions spans many other venues besides these as well but... who cares.
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